06/07/06 - Oakland Vert - Great Potential Down the Drain
Last week a new park opened in Michigan - Oakland Vert. After hearing a thread full of complaints about it on Team Young and also hearing criticism from Deliverance - I was REALLY excited...a park not like the other Michigan parks which are so designed for bikes that it can be boring. I thought I was going to get a park built by a skateboarding kid with skateboarding in mind...the parks that are built for skateboarding are 100x more fun for myself (remember to each his own) and I thought that's what this would be.
Before going, I thought that all the griping was just because people couldn't fly around and it wasn't like a rhythm section...it was weird and unique.
Well, I was sort of right...it was definitely weird and unique. But I soon realized that a park has to have some flow to be good...the place was so bad that for even to do a simple trick you had to ride over all these fucked up ramps. It soon became frustrating because where you would find a setup, you couldn't hit it because of the runway / landing...this may not be true for all, I'm sure Ruben or someone with all kinds of bike control might like this place...but you need to keep the rabble happy too.
And if you're thinking that it's just me griping because of my lack of skills, there was a Team Young guy there (I don't know which one...I only know Gall), and he seemed to be decently good. On multiple occasions I saw him jump something, only to slam on his brakes right after because he had nowhere to go... (if you read this: think of when you jumped from the spine to the bowl).
My intention with this is not to bash the owners or the park, but it's truly sad to go there and see how much effort was spent and wasted. The park was designed by some 12 year old (estimated age) kid that admitted he just looked at Tony Hawk and tried to create it. That's probably why there's two 8 foot vert walls back to back with a sub in the middle. This kid couldn't even boardslide the 1 foot high, 3 feet long handrail...why did he want 8 foot vert walls? Why isn't there more skateboarding obstacles? Don't skaters like to have open space and session banks and hand rails? So why was there only 2 sessionable (not a word) rails and 1 sessionable (again) flat bank?
Lastly, I hope for at least one person in charge of building a skatepark to read this: When building a skatepark, consult older skateboarders/bikers...when I was 12, I rode one park & it was behind the elementary school in Belle River & now I've rode upwards of 50 parks. The older persons will understand better what you need and what works (and conversely, what doesn't); and won't just try to build something that Kareem Campbell can Jesus Christ Air Heelflip 1080 to Boardslide on their home video game.
Firstly, some panoramic and overview pictures for you to just get an idea of the park.
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Here is the
"advanced" section, with arrows showing the two entrances into the roller /
curved wallride tunnel.
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A look at the section of the park you first encounter as you enter.
Now lets examine
some of the obstacles.
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Why does the best ledge in the skatepark not have coping?
Also why is the
best ledge at a park (a park designed by a skateboarder) a ride-on ledge with garbage
runway?
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You may think I'm nitpicking...but we walked around and examined things thoroughly in hopes of helping these poor souls out.
This is a step up...step-ups can be used for 1) doing tricks up and over - in which case you have 8 feet to stop yourself before you hit a wall...or 2) bank to ledge tricks - but why would you need that when there's another bank to ledge 10 feet away, which is perfect and much better.
All this means is that elements like this cost money and just get in the way...this would be a much better ramp element in the park if it was just a bank ramp without this little step-up / euro gap.
In terms of skateparks, quality is better than quantity...you don't need to jam 25 ramps into a space that would fit 15 nicely.
Improvements?
Remove the step up and just have a bank.
It's not really a big deal now, since it is already there.
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Why is there rails on top of ledges? Because it looks cool? Who knows?
But I know that on a bike you end up landing with your tires on that ledge half of the time.
Maybe I'm wrong here...but again I think you would save money just putting rails there without the ledges beneath...am I wrong?
Also...these are
those two "sessionable" rails I talked of earlier.
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Here we have a coping monster ledge that goes straight up another ledge without coping right after.
How is this useful? Why is that wall there? How much does that wall cramp up things and prevent lines?
Improvements?
Remove that wall and just put some foam padding on that pillar.
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Donnie pointed this one out...Why is there a box jump then a bank to ledge 6 feet later?
People jump box jumps with lots of speed that they would like to keep using and hit something they can use the speed on. A bank to ledge is not something you need racetrack speed to hit.
Improvements? A wallride or quarterpipe so you could return with speed to hit the spine or backside of the box jump.
The bank to ledge is good...but the two elements don't go well together, you can barely do fakie tricks because you have nowhere to land; and sure you can jump the box jump, but you can only jump the box jump, then slam on your brakes and turn around.
The positive
thing would be though, is that on a skateboard you would need that kind of speed
to get to the top of a bank to ledge...but I don't really see too many
skateboarders sessioning bank to ledges.
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This is related to the last picture in that, if you want to ride the bank or don't want to ride the box jump on the way back, then you have to ride through this small space to avoid the box jump / spine. Jumping the box jump / spine is not a problem, but it's just that these ramps don't go well together.
Also seen in this picture (circles) is that the rail extends past the peak of the ramp...meaning a skateboarder would have to attack it from the side and not head on.
The checkmark shows that the bank to sub box is good...just in a poor area.
Improvements? Take the center box with the arched rail out of there and put it on the ground. This would provide runway for and clearance to ride the ramps in this area and would provide the smaller skaters a small ledge rail to skate on flat ground.
This improvement
would be tremendous and very easily achieved.
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Is this coping?
Rollerblades
anyone?
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Why is there coping on the sides of quarterpipes? Extra money to waste?
The only people
I've ever seen grind up quarterpipes are myself & Butcher...so I'm thinking this
really isn't necessary...
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This box jump reminded me of the old Warehouse box jump.
I personally
can't handle box jumps that well; but some guy I was talking to said you can't
even jump it.
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Another example of people just building ramps without knowledge. If you were to build a sub rail / fence right there...why wouldn't you just spend the same amount to put a bank that links the two ramps and helps park flow? Do you know how much better that would be to ride? An extra hip...a mini to bank...transfer lines?
Just trying to help.
The arrow indicates an elevation change in the skateboard mini...but why? Why is this necessary? Anyone?
Lastly...notice
that the coping is fence post and has fence post ends on the end...should be fun
grinding over that drop for the skaters.
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Another example of unnecessary ramps jammed into each other. Setups like this are fun...if you have space...they aren't fun when you're just trying to turn around or air and you have to deal with staying in the 5 foot wide ramp.
Extra money / effort that doesn't benefit the park yet again.
Improvements?
Make these ramps into
one flush quarterpipe. This is not really a big concern, but it would
improve the area somewhat.
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Donnie & I were both excited about this bank ramp to foam pit. This is probably the one reason we'll go to Oakland Vert a second time.
Thumbs Up.
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Thumbs down to this...this is the roll in for said foam pit...remember that Donnie's not Andre the Giant...those ramps are just small. They tried to stick a foam pit in an area that was too small, with too small of roll ins and too small of pit area.
Can't wait to be
pedaling the whole way down this... :(
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A 3rd thumbs up to having a graffiti wall.
Having a graffiti wall gets people to write in one place and not everywhere which will save you in the long run if you have to sell the place later.
Plus it's just a
good place for the local youth to practice instead of on the factory down the
road.
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There was a roller rink around the advanced area...I don't know how much effort went into this, but I was thinking where are there any roller skate parks anymore? Hopefully this was just like this and didn't cost an extravagant amount of money.
Sort of a cool
idea...I guess...
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Why is there coping on the top ledge...but not the bottom curved ledge? I assume it's because they couldn't get any hollow sign post (that's what's on the ledges there) curved.
Why is there even a top ledge? I tried to grind it and ran into the wall...the speed required to bunnyhop / ollie up there gives you way to much speed to hit a 6 foot ledge that runs into a wall.
Also, the bottom ledge has all right runway for left side grinding...but the right side grinding runway consisted of 2 rollers, so that you were going far to fast to hit a 90° turn curved ledge off of a slippery floor.
Improvements? Most of my other suggestions have been simple, but the best one for this, would be to put a quarterpipe here instead, (or bank ramp if you have to settle) so that the people that carve to the right can have a proper runway for the "luge speed turn" (see oaklandvert.com)... ie. the rollers with a curved wallride tunnel.
You see it's hard right now for people that carve to the right (ie. feel more comfortable turning right) to take some speed into the tunnel with the slippery floor and terrible runway. Also this would help the people coming out of the tunnel the other way, as right now, when they exit the tunnel, they run into a curve ledge and slippery floor.
This would be a
vast improvement; very far from nitpicking.
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I don't understand why skateparks have (moderately) steep rails...it's ok when there are 8 rails at a park to have a couple steep ones...but when there's 2 mediocre small rails, you need the other 2 park rails to be sessionable.
Maybe because this was in the "advanced" section I shouldn't complain...but what I'm I going to do on this...50-50, feeble, switch 50-50 or icepick? Make the rail less steep and that trick list doubles. People return to skateparks to practice tricks...not just go there to bang out tricks that they only want to do once; if I wanted a rail to do once and never touch again; I'd just save $16 and go to Flint.
Secondly, the question marks mark the "large street steps"...where they're too short for a bike and the only thing you could do on them is drop, drop, drop three times consecutively (on a skateboard). Good luck trying something over all 3 with that runway. Also there's angle iron on the side if you want to grind over the 3 stair...but you need to hop off early because there's a wall the stops you at the end.
Lastly, why is there sign post coping on all the stairs? No one is going to grind the 5th step...or the 3 stair drops.
Improvements? Make the rails less steep; modify the 3 stair (see question marks) into a bank or put a rail down it so it becomes useful. I believe you would attract a lot more skaters if you enacted these modifications.
It's crazy how
many objects exist here that you can't use for more than 1 thing (and that's if
you try to think).
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Why is there plastic coping here? I know I can't air a roller to grind...can skateboarders / rollerbladers?
This doesn't
really hurt anything...but isn't it a waste of money?
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This bench is up by the runway for the 2 steep handrails...another wall exists to the right as well...so you have to curve, grind maybe 3 feet, and curve again...not a great place for a bench.
I'm starting to think some benches were put in at this park for just that; pedestrian benches...because these just don't make sense.
Improvements?
Change to a quarterpipe or a bank ramp. Hell, even build a bank ramp atop
the ledge and make it sort of a weird wallride. Or you could modify it
into a curve ledge...(trying to think with the skateboarding portion of my
brain). There's some potential here, and this is about the worst object I
could think of for right here.
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#1 refers to the useless ledge off the 3 stair that I've already addressed.
#2 refers to the walls around this part...why? 3 foot walls are unnecessary and actually pose a hazard because it reduces visibility of what's going on in the tunnel. A wall is needed here, but a foot high ledge would be much more adequate.
#3 refers to the
runway issues addressed before.
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Donnie enjoyed this wallride...and the Team Young guy didn't mind it either (it seemed).
I had no opinion because of my runway.
So that gets a
thumbs up as well. Bringing the grand total to 4.
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Just a shot of
the curved wallride.
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This is what I
was hoping for when I heard about this place with all the "weird" ramps...this
had things you could do and was actually a decent object. It wasn't
anything life changing, but there were things possible.
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I sort of explained this one in the picture, but this is a giant ledge that starts 7 feet down a bank...which doesn't make it impossible, but nearly so. Ledges need to extend to the flat top so that you can get on them easier.
Improvements?
Extend the ledge
to the top of the flat bank. This improvement wouldn't improve the park
that much though; as this is a enormous ledge and I couldn't see that many
people doing it that many times. I mean I could do it, and I'm sure plenty
of people could, but it's not really going to improve things a whole hell of a
lot.
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Walls like this cost money and are unnecessary. They prevent lines and only really serve a purpose of blocking people from possibly running into each other. But, this is supposed to be the "advanced" portion of the park and "advanced" riders know better than to drop in when someone's flying around.
Improvements?
Easy...remove
Walls. Vast improvement for such a minor change.
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This picture features something I really like, and something I really dislike.
The 5th thumbs up is really big because, whenever I ride bank to boxes (see above), they always place the box right on the edge giving you no space to get atop...it's not really that difficult normally, but this really helped.
What's wrong with this is that that box is unnecessary. Sure it's fun to manual, but for it to get in the way is not worth a manual pad. You have a coping monster right next to it...why do you need a manual pad 1.5 feet away?
Improvements? Move that box to flat ground and let skaters use it.
How does a park built by a skateboarder not have a flat-ground manual pad anyways?
This improvement
helps somewhat; but does make a lot of sense, because why is there a manual pad
in an area with 8 foot vert quarters?
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Sort of spelt this one out.
Can't really
improve...but why is there an oververt to sub?
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Another vert wall
to sub. That 12 year old kid must be just really good at vert/ramp skating
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Why is this ledge here?
I guess the
owners of this place must know Brian Wizmerski, because he's about the only
person that could use this (see: icepick to wallride).
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Lastly, this
follows the same "unnecessary extra random crap" suit. A simple 6 foot
quarter would have been far better here so that you could turn around and hit
the coping monster.
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Oakland Vert needs to make some improvements or it's going to go the way of the ESP or Woodville. ESP and Woodville charged less and were far better; so that tells you something.
Overall, Oakland Vert is like the street spot you see driving and tell everyone about; only to bring everyone there thinking it looks crazy only to realize there's nothing to do. I really hope it changes; but I know I'm making sure to ride that foam pit quickly in fear of it closing.
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JurajKolnikisElite@gmail.com
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